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View Full Version : 265 dayton cfm vs. 4" vortex



Unregistered
09-15-2009, 07:46 PM
I have a dayton exhausting a 400 hps that still gets to hot. If the ambient temp is 75 it's 89 in the tent. Even though the vortex has lower cfm would it do a better job than the dayton?

David G.
09-15-2009, 09:58 PM
Absolutely. See my comments in the following post:
http://forums.bghydro.com/showthread.php?t=1358

So you're saying that the source air (the air that is being sucked into the fan from the outside of the tent) is 75, but inside the tent it is 89?

1. How big is the tent?
2. Do you have a carbon filter, or anything else, attached to the duct run?
3. Is the tent in a bedroom?
4. Does the exhaust air that is exiting the tent go back into the bedroom or does it exit the room completely (and flow directly outdoor)?

Unregistered
09-16-2009, 01:14 PM
yes

1. The tent is a homebox s 2.7x2.7x5.3
2. Air is exhausted and pushed through a carbon filter.
3. It's in a closet.
4. Exhaust air is pulled from the tent in the closet and pushed into the bedroom.

thanks

David G.
09-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Three more questions:
1. Is the reflector air cooled (I'm assuming not)?
2. So the source/intake air is coming from the closet, correct?
3. The temperature in the closet is 75 when the tent is at 89, correct?

Unregistered
09-18-2009, 05:01 PM
1. Yes, the reflector is aircooled.
2. The intake is passive, so yes it comes from the closet.
3. yes

thanks

David G.
09-20-2009, 08:35 PM
So the air passes from the closet, into the tent, through the reflector, through the fan, and then through the carbon filter? If not, please let me know the flow.

Also, can you tell me which reflector you are using?

Unregistered
09-21-2009, 05:39 PM
Yes that's right.

It's a supernova. highyieldlighting.com/Reflectors.htm#SuperNova

thanks for trying to figure this out!

David G.
09-21-2009, 10:38 PM
Here are a few possible causes I can think of off the top of my head:


The reflector you are using has only 4" exhaust ports, which limit the amount of air that can be passed through. Touch each side of the reflector. Is it very hot to the touch, or just warm. If it is hot then you may want to try to insulate it.
Touch your ducting; if it is warm to the touch then you should consider switching to insulated ducting (which can be found on our website).
The carbon filter may be reducing the CFM of the fan to the point that it is not pulling air through the tent fast enough. This can be caused by not sizing the filter/fan combo properly, by age, or because the pre-filter is dirty/clogged. Do the sides of the tent "suck in" very slightly or a lot when the fan is turned on? If it is only very slightly then you are probably not getting enough air flow.
The tent you have is pretty small, and the large reflector and 400W lamp you have in there is bound to generate a lot of excess heat in a space that size.

Also, I almost never recommend the Dayton fan anymore. With the price of centrifugal fans as low as they are these days, it rarely pays. The static pressure on centrifugal fans allows them to push through ducting, tents, carbon filters, etc. whereas the CFM on the Dayton fans goes down dramatically as you start to add obstacles.

Lastly, the temps in the tent will always be at least a little higher than the ambient temp, for many reasons, especially when the light wattage to tent size ratio is high. All you can do is try to reduce the ambient air temp as much as possible, try to insulate the hot components (oh, and make sure the ballast is outside the tent), and get as much air flowing through that tent as possible.

Hope this helps!

Unregistered
09-22-2009, 08:45 PM
Thanks for all the help david!

The tent doesn't suck in at all when the fans on. I think I'll just upgrade to a 6" vortex and get duct reducers eventually. The only thing I'm worried about is the sound, some say it's as loud as a jet engine and some say it's not loud at all, I don't know what to believe.

David G.
09-25-2009, 10:19 AM
The fan itself is quieter, it's just the air rushing out that makes noise. And since there is more air coming out of a stronger fan then there is potential to be louder.

Also, before you upgrade your fan, make sure that your carbon filter will handle the increased CFM; otherwise, you may need to replace the filter as well.

Unregistered
09-25-2009, 07:41 PM
Yeah I just realized I would have to buy a new filter too. I would like to keep using the filter I have and not have to buy the duct reducers. So I think I'll go back to the original plan and get the 4" vortex. So to make it clear the 4" vortex can definately cool a 400 watt hps? I just don't want to buy the wrong fan again and end up buy a third.

thanks

David G.
09-27-2009, 09:00 AM
A 4" Vortex or Can Fan will definitely clear the 2.7' tent you have. If you tell me which brand/model filter you have I can also confirm that the fan will be compatible.

Can-Filters
09-28-2009, 09:40 AM
If you are unsure on what filter to get with a new fan, or just want to make sure you have the proper set up, check out this link:
http://www.canfilters.com/canfilters_150.html

By following the CFM requirements for these filters you will be getting the proper amount of airflow to exchange the air in your area as well as adsorb maximum contaminant from the air, and still get the full lifetime out of the filter.

David G.
09-28-2009, 09:48 PM
FYI, the link in the previous post from CAN takes you to the CAN 150 filter page; the filter you have is probably much, much smaller! But, if you follow the links on the left side of the page for the smaller filters you will get a better idea of which fans go with which filters. If you have a CAN filter, just find the filter in the left column, click on it, and see which fans are recommended. If you don't have a CAN filter, then this won't help you...

Unregistered
09-30-2009, 08:53 PM
A 4" Vortex or Can Fan will definitely clear the 2.7' tent you have. If you tell me which brand/model filter you have I can also confirm that the fan will be compatible.


I bought it from you guys about a year ago. On the site is was called the Elf, when I opened the filter it said Phat Hydro on it. I don't remember the specs but I'm pretty sure it will work.

David G.
09-30-2009, 10:39 PM
It should work with the Elf. I checked the specs and the range is 100-300 cfm, and both the CAN and the Vortex fall within that range.

FYI, your Elf is probably nearing the end of its useful life cycle, so if you start to notice that it's not eliminating 100% of the air, it's probably time to pickup a replacement. With that info in mind, you may want to consider picking up a CAN fan instead of a Vortex; this will make it very easy for you to choose a suitable replacement when the time comes (we don't carry the Elf anymore). Since CAN manufactures both the filters and the fans, you know they will work very well together, and they have an excellent track record. CAN fans also have some nice advantages over Vortex fans. But either way you go, you should be good to go with a 4".

willard3
10-03-2009, 12:03 PM
In-line centrifugal fans all move less air than any housed fan ( dayton and etc) for the same HP.

David G.
10-03-2009, 10:35 PM
???

When it comes to clearing rooms or driving carbon filters it's all about static pressure, and centrifugal fans generate much more static pressure than Dayton squirrel cage blowers do. CFM on fans is rated on free air movement. In other words, if you hold the fan up in the air in the middle of your room it will push out what is stated on the box. As soon as you attach a carbon filter or some ducting, etc. the CFM drops dramatically. Not so with a centrifugal fan, especially a mixed-flow fan (i.e. Can Fan Max Fan). There is absolutely no comparison between a Dayton and a centrifugal fan when it comes to driving carbon filters.

I know there has been a lot of debate over centrifugal vs. Dayton, so let me tell you what I know. We used to sell tons of Dayton blowers... until the first centrifugal fan hit our industry - the Elicient. After that came Fantech. Then Can. Then Vortex. And the list goes on. We hardly sell any Dayton blowers anymore, and the few that we sell are almost entirely through our website; almost none of the growers that shop at our retail stores use Daytons anymore. They used to, but not anymore. This is not because we have convinced our customers to buy centrifugals. Most of our larger growers have experimented with just about every type of fan out there, but they all use centrifugals or Max fans now. My guess is that we sell at least 100:1 centrifugal vs. Dayton, etc., and that is probably a conservative figure at best. I'm not saying that Dayton fans and inline fans are useless - all fans have their place - but for 99% of our customers the centrifugals seem to be the ticket.

Unregistered
10-04-2009, 05:03 PM
It should work with the Elf. I checked the specs and the range is 100-300 cfm, and both the CAN and the Vortex fall within that range.

FYI, your Elf is probably nearing the end of its useful life cycle, so if you start to notice that it's not eliminating 100% of the air, it's probably time to pickup a replacement. With that info in mind, you may want to consider picking up a CAN fan instead of a Vortex; this will make it very easy for you to choose a suitable replacement when the time comes (we don't carry the Elf anymore). Since CAN manufactures both the filters and the fans, you know they will work very well together, and they have an excellent track record. CAN fans also have some nice advantages over Vortex fans. But either way you go, you should be good to go with a 4".

I used the filter 3 months and its been sitting in a box for 9, I just started using it again. I already bought the vortex, I've heard it's quiter, higher cfm, cheaper (i had a coupon), and 10 year warranty.

Thanks for helping with this!

willard3
10-09-2009, 06:55 AM
Dayton makes centrifugal fans that will do any pressure you want. The fan Hp, fan blade type and rpm may change, but you need to read any fan curve to choose a fan. A fan curve is a plot or pressure (usually on the Y axis) vs flow cfm (usually on the x axis). Talking about fans without a fan curve is not productive

Dayton makes centrifugal fans....you may only handle Dayton propeller fans which won't do a lot of pressure, but they make others.

David G.
10-23-2009, 10:51 PM
Do you happen to know where I could find the specs on the Dayton centrifugal fans you are referring to?

willard3
10-24-2009, 08:38 AM
Start here:

http://www.bizrate.com/fans/dayton-blower-fan/